Is Tyler Perry A Closeted Homosexual And Does It Really Matter?
In the barber shops, beauty salons, coffee shops, private residences, dorm rooms, the question surfaces is Tyler Perry a closeted homosexual?
The truth is, we will probably never know Tyler’s true sexual orientation.
My argument is, Perry’s sexual orientation “does” matter because it proves
black gays and lesbians have power in Hollywood.
Maybe Tyler will end up like the soul singer Luther Vandross?
Vandross never revealed he was gay for his entire life he died “in the closet”.
It wasn’t until after Vandross died in 2005 that the media “revealed” the truth that he was indeed a homosexual.
Of course, everyone already “knew” Luther was gay we are not dense.
We kept Luther’s “secret” because we had a “don’t ask don’t tell” policy with
Luther. The deal was Luther would “sing” his songs about heterosexual love yet deny who he really was for our satisfaction.
I just feel it was so tragic Luther “died” and he could not be open about his
homosexuality. If Luther’s audience really loved him why wasn’t he allowed to declare he was a black gay man when he was alive?
I feel Tyler Perry’s fans already “know” he’s gay but I guess the same policy of “don’t ask don’t tell” applies.
I won’t lie yes I have seen a couple of Perry’s movies.
I have to admit I liked “Diary Of A Mad Black Woman”, “Madea Goes To Jail”,
and “Why Did I Get Married?” I think “Why Did I Get Married?” is my favorite
Perry movie because Madea is NOT in the film at all.
However, I have began to question if Perry’s movies are sending out mixed
messages?
For instance, why is Madea so belligerent? Is Tyler trying to say an elderly
black grandmother is an aggressive and hostile woman? Is Tyler trying to say black women from the South are loudmouths?
Perry’s fan base has expanded from a predominately black audience to a multi racial audience.
However, Perry’s main character “Madea” has been criticized by some black feminists for promoting racist and sexist stereotypes about black womanhood.
Some fans say Perry’s movies are light entertainment and should not be taken seriously.
Another quandary is, some of Perry’s core audience are homophobic Christians.
I am not suggesting “all Christians” are anti homosexual. I am suggesting that some of Perry’s fans would not “accept” Perry if he did come out and
disclose his true sexual orientation.
Perry can’t “come out” and declare he is a homosexual he will lose his core audience.
Perry’s movies have grossed about $400 million dollars since the year 2005. Tyler Perry is a Hollywood “outsider” but he has struck gold with his Christian audience.
However, isn’t it hypocritical of Perry to promote movies to an audience that would not “accept him” if he told them the truth?
According to my sources in Atlanta, Perry got the idea for Madea from Miss Sophia a black drag queen from the 1990s Atlanta gay scene.
Also, why is it “funny” to see a six foot five black man in a dress wearing makeup and a wig?
Madea is supposed to be an outrageous grandmother that packs a pistol but is she also a threat?
Some people believe Perry uses the character Madea to have some “agency” to express his alleged homosexuality. For instance, Perry seems very comfortable prancing across the screen in a frilly dress. I think Perry’s Madea character is more drag performance and black queer art.
Gayblackcanada 
I think it is important to differentiate between sexual orientation and gender identity. Dressing up as a women does not necessarily alter whether they identify as gay. It is also important to recognize the various queer identities that exist that go further then a gay or lesbian identity.
That being said, I agree that the portrayal of Madea is stereotyping African women, especially because it has been created exclusively by Hollywood and the men that run this institution.
…the straight white men that run this institution….
I don’t see how Tyler Perry cannot set off the gaydar of a man who is himself gay. I’m straight and every time I see Tyler Perry, even on those rare occasions when he isn’t in drag, he is positively flaming.
Yes Hooper I totally agree it is obvious Tyler Perry is gay. However, Perry will never come out of the closet because he is afraid of losing his core audience.
sooo what….hooray for him..hey I’m 81and gay..sure has been a LONG time comming out for me….so MORE power to this wonderful actor and big hunk
of love. I think hes a reslly nice guy quick..smart and very funny!!!!
I’d date him…..I think he’s SEXY and HOT.
I want to marry Tyler Perry. I don’t want him to be gay. So I will continue to hold out some hope. That said, why is it that if a man or woman doesn’t have a significant other parading around with and fornicating fashionably like the rest of the world… people label them as either gay or bi? I have heard for years that I was a lesbian. I’ve never denied the rumors and I never will. Just because I don’t fit into societies stereotypical relationship expectations doesn’t make me gay. Let Tyler live until we find each other. LOL
Val, girlfriend I think Tyler Perry is gay, gay, gay! I know you love Tyler but I believe he is gay.
Luther Vandross never hide the fact that he was homosexual aand all his true fans knew that, if it were not for his “Never too Much” album I would have never made it through my pregnancy with my son, as his father was not a true man. Yes, homosexuality is a sin, but we must let JESUS our LORD and saviour be thejudge, as Luther`s music never encourage me to become homosexual.
I myself am a Christian and even if Tyler Perry were to come out and be gay, I would not like him any less, nor would I stop watching his movies. However, I am positive he is not gay, he has mentioned in several interviews he does not enjoy playing Madea, that it was too much of a pain, that he would actually like to kill her off. (lol) But as long as the fans still wanted her around, he’d keep her around. ALSO he said on Larry King that Madea was a mixture of his mother, and his aunt…the “PG” rated version of them. (imagine the uncensored!) And that the word “Madea” means “mother dearest,” or “mother dear”…can’t remember exactly…but that too is in the Larry King interview.
And how would you know his core audience are “homophobic Christians”? Have you met the majority of his core audience? Yes there are homophobic “PEOPLE” all over the world, NOT just Christians…How would you know if his audience would not except him if he turned out to be gay? You’re speaking very ignorant and are stereotyping Christians. Yes, I know there are a lot of “Christians” out there who are hypocritical and they do not act the way a true Christian should act, but chances are thos Christians aren’t watching Tyler Perry Movies…chances are they aren’t watching anything other than the 700 club or “Touched by an Angel” re-runs. Anyway…might be better off to do a little researching before posting stuff like this, but then again no one can really ever be sure of anyones sexuality…there have been married men with kids who have came out of the closet…but I am comfortable enough to say I doubt 100% that Tyler Perry is gay.
here is the interview with Larry king in which he talks about what inspired “Madea”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIhiuaXhRqs&NR=1
if it’s not in the interview, it’s in part 2 of the interview.
& here is the interview in which he talks about wishing he could kill her off, lol
Layla, I disagree, of course Tyler Perry is going to say he is not gay he doesn’t want to lose his Christian audience. Tyler Perry is never going to kill off Madea because she is his bread and butter that’s all talk on Tyler’s part. I think Tyler Perry’s core audience is hypocritical because they do not mind supporting a black man wearing a dress but they are against homosexuality and people that cross dress in the real world. In the real world, men that cross dress are shamed and shunned by their community and friends.
In the real world, drag queens and cross dressers encounter a lot of discrimination.
However, I think the Madea character is more “drag queen” than just Tyler putting on a dress.
Last year, Layla, check http://www.boxofficemojo.com according to this movie industry website “Madea Goes To Jail” is Tyler Perry’s most successful film so far in his career. “Madea Goes To Jail” grossed $90 million dollars.
The bottom line is this, homosexuality is a sin. Anybody who says it’s not is not truly a Christian. If Tyler Perry is a practicing homosexual, true Christians should be praying for him and not encouraging his behavior by trying to “fit in” with society. I’m so sick and tired of weak willed Christians who want to be accepted. Stand up for Jesus. Who cares about the stupid labels the world gives. “Homophobia” …whateva!
I am so tired of people talking down on gay people, especally chirstains. God did not make everybody in this world the same. Gay people are not causing the afflictions of this land. Heterosexuals are, so if Tyler is gay so what. Children of God won’t farsake him, maybe chirstains would, because children of God is about love, love will over power all things. And another thing Madea is a character played by a talented person not some man in damn drags. The human race is a damn trip.
The bottom line is you are simply a brainwashed Christian spouting your learnt bias about homosexuality! Being gay is not a sin! Some believe it’s a sin for a woman to lead in church, how can that be IF such a woman is blessed with the gifts to take up such a role? Likewise a man being attracted to another man is not by choice, it’s natural to him. What is a sin is living a lie! Believe it or not, David and Johnathan were romantically involved and God didn’t have a problem with that. The bible at no time condemns homosexuality. What the bible condemns is same-sex activities for idolatrous reasons. Read between the lines and STOP putting gays through the pressure and pains that blacks went through, simply because some special interest group twisted scriptures to advance their wickedness. Two men in love is better than two men at war. Which do you prefer? We make God into a trivial and less than human god by believing He really cares who our hearts fall for. The fact is, in heaven there will be no wife nor husband, no sex will be in heaven. What God wants for us is to love Him and each other as ourselves. If we are going to take the bible literally, didn’t Jesus say in Luke 17:34 (KJV) That two men will be in one bed on His return and that one will be taken, i.e the one who fulfills His law of love? Jesus cares about our hearts and NOT who we choose to commit our hearts to. You can’t force a man to love who he doesn’t!
CBK, homophobia is a serious problem in society due to fear, ignorance, and prejudice. What right do Christians have to tell gay people how we should live our lives? What right does a religious group have to tell adults what we do privately in our bedrooms?
CBK you need to get out of the dark ages and enter the real world because if you don’t think LGBT people are in the chruch you need to get real.
I don’t believe Tyler Perry is Gay. I do however believe he may have some issues with intimacy. If he was abused as a child it stands to reason why he may shy away from intimate relationships. I can only hope that one day he’ll find that special woman that will help him open his heart to true love.
I did meet Tyler in person recently & had a chance to conversate with him. He was a perfect gentlemen. He is a very large man but extremely kind nontheless. we made jokes , I saw a handsome viral man. I held his hand 2 say goodbye & those hands were like a pound of bananas, gently holding my little hand. I love tall men but he scared me! I had nightmares(lol). Nah he is not Gay!
I obviously don’t know Tyler Perry’s sexual orientation because I don’t know the man. I just find it interesting though, in the black community people don’t seem to mind the drag queen Madea.
I think Tyler Perry is reticent about the issue of sexuality in his movies. For instance, why does Tyler’s movies discuss serious topics such as child abuse, drug abuse, violence against women, bad parenting ect. However, homosexuality is off limits in his films?
Wow. I just found this site b/c I was looking up Guru’s death and I came across this post. I was one of Ms. Sophia’s acting partners in a acting class in Atlanta and Tyler was there…and there was some tension. This post explains a lot. I don’t get why people stay in any closet. I don’t look at Tyler’s fan base as Christians ONLY at all. I look at his fan base as Black women who may or may not be Christians. I really think they don’t care what he does in his bedroom.
when i first saw the play family reunion and he came out with his suit on i said eh was gay. i don’t care one or the other. his movies/ plays i am a fan of them all with why did i get married parts 1 & 2 being the best of all to me. If he did come to i don’t think he would lose his audience. I am also a fan of Luther and with Luther it was obvious most of videos never really had a leading lady. His music was about true love and the whether gay or straight we all could relate to the words. There will never be another Luther and R & B won’t be the same without him. Him not coming out agin was his decision but true fans knew and really didn’t need him to say it because it doesn’t matter. ? why do people have to come out and say it? I mean another person knowing your sexuality(unless they are sleeping with you) is it there business?
Hello, I think the answer to your question is, the reason some people don’t come out of the closet is due to shame and fear. Of course, some closeted gay people believe they should have privacy in their lives. However, my perspective is, the real reason some gays and lesbians hide their homosexuality is because they are worried people will judge them in a negative manner.
So does this mean that Skip Wilson was gay??? I think we are missing the point of his movies by making such a huge deal about whether or not he’s gay. His movies and plays are very much about family, love and forgiveness, so far most of you are so judgmental – either way, I wouldn’t come out either. What are you hiding in your personal life that it is okay to throw such criticisms at him? He shows our faults and addresses them in a comical yet serious way – entertainment, same as Skip did and same as William Shakespeare and yet still different than both. Comedy has a way of allowing us to examine ourselves with laughter – and yes I am black and a Christian and female and I am a huge fan.
Sugarbabie, I think you are talking about the comedian Flip Wilson and his crossdressing alter ego Geraldine. The problem I have with Tyler Perry is, his movies are targeting a Christian demographic yet utilizing aspects of gay culture. Madea is more of a drag performance than being an outrageous grandmother. Tyler Perry’s movies have elements of queer culture yet he is reticent about discussing homosexuality in his movies. The question is why? Perry’s movies focus on serious issues such as drug abuse, violence against women, child abuse, racism. However, homosexuality is ignored. The question remains why? Why is homosexuality so taboo for Perry to explore in his movies?
I think Perry does not discuss homosexuality in his films because he fears the spotlight will shine in his direction.
Perhaps Tyler Perry’s movies focus on issues such as drug abuse, violence against women, child abuse, and racism because those are serious issues. These things are problems that we face everyday. They are horrible monsters that tear people apart. Homosexuality may be a hot topic, one that hosts many different opinions. It maybe be supported, criticized, or hated, but it does not affect every single person. Whether someone goes home to a woman or a man does not affect me; it is none of my business. I think that the main reason Tyler Perry does not discuss the topic of homosexuality is because he knows his fan base is so huge. Perhaps, he realizes that homosexuals see movies and spend their money on them too! He also probably knows that important issues, such as abuse and violence, affect homosexuals and heterosexuals alike.
I heard For Colored Girls is going up on a mainstage in Hollywood. Does anybody know when?
Hello Tony Stern, according to the film website IMDB.COM For Colored Girls will get a wide release in November 5th 2010.
So if Tyler Perry is gay or transgender, does that mean that we get to harass, denigrate, and persecute him?
Yippy!
PS.
I guess we as human beings well never grown up…
My issue with Tyler Perry is at the beginning of Madea’s role, he professed to be a Christian. In the beginning it seemed as though that might be true. I loved the orignal Madea’s Family Reunion. He quickly sold out as many celebs do. He became rich practically overnight. His films, no matter how true and good they are, are ‘worldly’. That’s what the audience likes. Even church folk. Blacks represent a large sector of supporting blacks even if they compromise who they claim to be. Its not Tyler’s fault who he is, its the audience. His audience has made him compromise. He said it in the interview about keeping Madea alive because that’s what the fans want. As far as him being gay…well I don’t know. I do know that if he’s not a believer in Christ, it doesn’t realy matter what he is. You will know them by their fruit. His films don’t glorify God. Only his pocket book. Judge for yourself, and judge ‘yourself’!
Yall are too deep thats the problem we want to depict christianity as some neatly wrapped package but its not we hide behind all the mess played out on screen and we still have blinders on.at the end of the day if u watch a film and it causes u to exam u then the mission is accomplished.stop expecting others to live what u are not living….get in the word forreal.I respect Tyler Perry and btw only God could have made his li
fe what it is today.not church folks amen.
lets focus on one main important issue. Tyler Perry was once a homeless man. A black man has a far greater chance of being homeless than someone who is white, whether they are straight or gay. From being broke, jobless and homeless, he is now a movie producer and all the media wants to know about why is he single?
Let’s be real for a moment, has anyone ever thought about the struggle he can to endure while being homeless and broke? I think that we spend way too much time trying to find out people’s sexual orientation. Tyler Perry is way too busy of a man to deal with his own personal/social issues.
Black men who are suspected in being gay will NEVER be treated anywhere near as fair as Neil Patrick Harris, Lance Bass or any other white gay celebrity, just because he is black! Black gays and lesbians are encouraged by their white gay friends to come out and announce to the world and at the end of the parade as well at the end of the day, they are left without the celebration, just some fucked up tabloids and a few comments, no contracts, nothing. While white gay celebrities are getting well paid and well representation. None of these white gay male celebrities never been broke or homeless. Let’s think about that first, before we dip into Mr. Perry’s sexual orientation!
I agree with John. Why does it matter so much that Black Gay Celebrity Men come out and make some kind of announcement? If his black audience “knows” he’s gay, his close Hollywood friends know he’s gay, and many of his wider audience “know” he’s gay, then WHY is a huge outing so necessary to who he is as a gay person? Straight people aren’t expected to make a huge announcement of being straight, and aren’t gay people just people? Why must they announce their sexuality to people who would just try to destroy them because of the announcement? I doubt that Luther Vandross was broken because he never announce being gay to the world. I’m sure he and his partner lived good lives with the money and fame and prestige Luther had. Trade that in just to align with a stupid political agenda?
Because this white political climate for white gays demand that one outs him/herself. It’s politics. But when has white politics or white cultural norms EVER been useful for black people? If Tyler Perry is gay, I don’t give a hot damn! That’s for him to do. He probably wouldn’t get any Hollywood love from those gays who are doing it big. I doubt that Nate Berkus would call Tyler and give him some of his decorating empire! PLEASE! Yet white gays expect black gays to come out of the closet.
I do respect Tyler Perry for his struggle to make it in Hollywood and his clout that has right now. Why out himself and destroy it just to fit in to the white gay political structure? Which doesn’t fit black gays anyway? Please. Stay closeted if you’re gay, Tyler, because the outing for black gays in your position is a stupid trick bag!
Hello Anna Renee & John I agree that black gay and lesbian celebrities have it harder than white homosexuals to come out of the closet.
I do see Anna Renee & John your cogent arguments that white culture favours white queers over black queers this is true.
The white gay media definitely has a predilection towards their own white gay celebrities than gay stars of colour.
Meshell N’Degeocello the bisexual African American singer is not a household name and she never got the cover of Advocate or Out Magazine.
So I definitely agree to a certain extent Anna Renee & John that racism exists in the mainstream white gay community against black folks.
But the reason I want black gays to come out is NOT FOR WHITE PEOPLE IT IS FOR BLACK PEOPLE.
We as a black race need to have a dialogue about homosexuality.
I believe in OUR black culture that we do need to have an honest discussion about homosexuality in our community!
Why is there this shame about being black & gay?
However, the silence of black A list stars is a concern of mine because I believe some black heterosexuals believe black gays and lesbians
do not exist.
The black heterosexual community certainly doesn’t make it easy for black queers to come out. If you read black magazines or black culture when the issue of homosexuality emerges it tends to be NEGATIVE.
Of course, black queers are not going to come out when our community shuns us and makes us feel like we are parasites!
I am not sure black heterosexuals understand but I will try to explain. Now, due to heterosexism there is an assumption everyone is heterosexual. Heterosexual privilege still exists which DENIES gay and lesbian existence in our community.
Black gays and lesbians live in SILENCE some in FEAR due to homophobia in our community. Some of us live in fear of losing our
place in our families and that’s serious.
However, I do believe that if more high profile black gay stars DID come out of the closet it would make a difference in our community. If black people are so accepting of homosexuality why are high profile black gay and lesbian stars still in the closet?
I think black gays and lesbian celebrities could help bridge the gap in our community in relation to homophobia.
Who cares if he’s gay? Who cares if he’s straight? He’s funny and brilliant. Wherever Madea comes from, whoever she’s based on, she provides a great outrageous voice that is unafraid. In every classic tradition, there is a person who acts as the Fool, the one who sees the truth and isn’t afraid to point it out, the one who is the dancer within the dance. In comedy, it’s an essential element. I appreciate the character’s comic ferocity.
Who dis person writin all dis nonsense? I think he himself or herself is gay and very jealosy, sittin down writing some crab about other people who are doing good in their business. why dont he start his own business and succeed if he has to. rather that siting somewhere soeculating nonsense such as this. does the writer give life to people such that he has to tell who is gay and who aint? if he got his sexuality right then he needs to focus on that!
Nobody who is Black is ever going to come out because regardless if they are Christian or not, core fan base will be lost and that will kill anybody’s career. It is a sad, but fact of life. Blacks are more judgmental, than Whites when it comes down to these matters and even though it would be great for these gay children to have these actors, singers, etc be a role models, it wouldn’t be the greatest thing for them on an individual basis.
You’re(not your) all incredibly ignorant, shelterred, and digustingly under-educated. Why does it even matter if the man is gay? His works bring love and joy to people who enjoy his movies/tv shows/plays, the world over. Why does his sexuality matter at all? the vast majority of the theater community is homosexual and accepting of all orientations, races, creeds, religions, and gender identities.
Most posters on this site need a few weeks of education on what a gay man or woman is really like. Chances are you are related to or are friends with a closeted homosexual. If more people in a position of pulic influence were forthcoming(like Perry should be; if only to set a positive example of a successful homosexual man) a lot of homosexual children would benefeit. Thats right kids are gay too– its not a choice. Even though I am a straight man, I was raised by a strong, courageous, and openly gay mother, as well as my father, from whom she was obviously divorced. Why anyone’s sexual orientation even matters in ANY community baffles me.
Outing is not the answer for LGBT community. Political aliment with
groups whom. Support us there need to draw the line. Refuse to allow
elite White male to authority. Over agenda no Telly does it matter? Hello many of closet Black n Latino men. For those so, curious look ratio. Black Gay porn lately, Thug bottoms! Trashy not Gay there into
male to male anal play! Causing a genocide which place upon. LGBT
community drinks Thug punch nasty taste! Hidden false sexual attitudes within America Tyler can’t expose his privacy. Blacks whom don’t purchase great deal of commodities. Seek failure any cause the
entrench apathy. Call me bias I speak the fucking truth. Why should it
matter Gay men as myself. Never gotten any moral or cultural respect. From so called Black front not the least. Unhappy but return it to those willing to unite! Gay n proud fuck the dumb shit! Irate siding
with White man he biggest pervert! Molesting children yeah, learn something cease associate of sex crimes. LGBT community we oppose them also. Learn to respect people not orientation thank you!
It does not matter to me if Tyler is gay or not. It does matter to me that he continues to demean gay people in his films. It is so unnecessary. If he detests gay people so much just don’t have them in his films at all. He seems to feel the need to pander to his some of his bigoted, ignorant and mean spirited christian fans by depicting these negative images of gays in his films. Sometimes I think he is gay as he seems to protest too much. So many gay people like black people , unfortunately, are full of self hate. These negative images of gay people portrayed in his films may be manifestations of his own struggles as a gay man who is christian.I don’t know what his issue is but it is unfortunate that his movies continue to perpetuate bigotry and hate toward another oppressed minority group. How can you be christian and hurt others or have no sensitivity to the feelings of others? I am not gay but I am a social worker in a high school and I see first hand what homophobia does to black, gay youth.
Luther Vandross did had the fact that is was a homosexual after he dead it came out that is was gay. Google it
well me worrying about tyler perry being gay or not does really matter, cause he is not fighting or trying to represent gay black men anyway nor do i look for him to do so.
Interesting comments most. It only matters if you have aspirations of having an intimate relationship with Tyler. Homophobia is another vile condition of the general population. Just like the isms I would say. Human nature being as such, making judgments and assessments about people is what we do. Needless to say if you are in the public eye due to celebrity or sensationalism you have no privacy and become fair game to public scrutiny regarding every aspect of your life. The man has talent and a great business sense. He has accomplished somethings I find very gratifying. He has put people to work. He has created opportunities for people who don’t fit Hollywood’s mold. He is young so I say he will do more. Generally, I like his work. My favorite thus far is The Family That Preys. Madea is not in it. This work has depth and delivers several life lessons. I just don’t care about one’s sexuality. Who a person is and what they bring to the planet is what matters. Whether homo or hetero one is definitely impacted by who and what one is.
I am a white gay man and I love Tyler Perry. I hope he is gay and will eventually come out of the closet. Only then, will the black community have a positive role model. White men have been able to come out more freely over the last 30 years. It’s time black men can finally come out freely and quit living on the down low.
i luv u tyler perry
If he is gay its best to keep it secret.bc im sure his amongst many otha gays is a result of being molested in some sort. At least he knows its wrong and aint playn like its right fuckn kids heads up these days like all these otha freaks actn like the fact that two of thesame sex kills man kind rather then bring forth the baren of life slash humanity.
I think Madea is made to be a wild but funny female character who speaks her mind, and the only one who can play that character correctly is The Man, Tyler Perry. Why the heck would you say he’s gay just because he’s playing a female old character. Heck Tyler want to be in his own plays too sometimes. And people pay more attention and laugh more when he plays the role, Madea. Imaging if he played Madea’s role as Tyler. Won’t be too funny would it? So stop always trying to say what you think somebody is. Gosh. Tyler seems to be a God fearing man, therefore he would Not be A Gay Man.
I disagree. Whether he’s gay or not doesn’t matter to me. I will love and respect him all the same. And if a black man being in a dress for ACTING purposes bothers you then you are too critical or too “christian”. As for the black feminists, get over yourselves. Madea was inspired by real women in his life so that image didn’t come from nowhere. It’s reality. You cannot deny that the black people that he portrays exist in real life. They do. It’s funny because we know those people and can relate. So what? His characters are not accountable for the entire black population. I am a white woman and I did not complain when White Chicks came out. It was hilarious! They portrayed white girls to be ignorant and materialistic but again, it’s funny because those girls actually exist.